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Post by Paco81 on Jun 25, 2011 6:53:38 GMT -5
It may be that Pokemon Stadium has ruined the chance of the glitch working on my current save files. Even though I know there are boxes which have never been full, they haven't worked, possibly because Stadium has made it as though they had been full. I haven't any way of testing my idea. It's just a thought. In my Yellow I also have some boxes never used, but still the glitch doesn't work, perhaps move Pokémon using Pokémon Stadium cause the game "think" that all the boxes were filled. I use Pokémon Stadium 2 to interact with my Yellow version (for move Pokémon and Items). I think another possibility would be that certain Missingno or glitch Pokémon transferred to PC Bill, cause that this glitch don´t working in any box. I have my 3 first boxes filled of Missingno and Glitch Pokémon, perhaps some of them caused that the glitch not working on my Yellow. In my Red version I deleted my save file (pressing Up + Select + B in the title screen) and now the glitch works correctly.
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 26, 2011 17:57:10 GMT -5
In my Red version I deleted my save file (pressing Up + Select + B in the title screen) and now the glitch works correctly. This may help me. I've tried saving over my old save file once in Red, but the glitch still didn't work. As in past attempts I saw what looked like old pokemon at the bottom of the list in my boxes as I withdrew Q then the top pokemon, etc. Those pokemon were not accessible, but I could still see them. Now I'll try deleting the save file before starting a new game. Do you know whether it's all right for me to use a traded Q for the glitch? Is it necessary for the Q to have my current save file as the OT? [It worked fine.]
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 26, 2011 20:25:05 GMT -5
It worked! I successfully got ゥ with a traded Butterfree (HP 193) using a traded Q. I did have to delete my save file altogether before restarting the game, but it worked just fine after that. Thanks Paco!
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 26, 2011 22:32:08 GMT -5
I just finished experimenting with Pokemon Stadium 1. Here's what I tried... First I transferred pokemon to my cartridge's party only through Stadium. I didn't do anything with the boxes in Bill's PC. Afterward I successfully created a Lv 155 4B 8 4 8 (Hex D1) using a Lv. 100 Pikachu with 209 HP (fully healed) in Box 1 of Bill's PC. <side note> Something cool happened when I did this (unrelated to Pokemon Stadium). Pikachu's original move set changed from: Cut, Fly, Surf, Strength into ... Surf, Strength, Pound, TM23
I wasn't able to stabilize this hybrid in the daycare because of the HM moves that "Pikachu" still knew, and I didn't want to save and stabilize it in Stadium since I was only experimenting so I performed the glitch again using "Pikachu" (Hex D1) and the moveset changed again from: Surf, Strength, Pound, TM23 to ... Pound, TM23, Cut, Submission
I'm not sure what type of pokemon "Pikachu" had ultimately become since beforehand it's HP was above 255 (I believe it was 512/512) and again I couldn't stabilize it due to Cut.
In order to avoid saving this last time, to perform the glitch I actually re-deposited Pikachu then two 'Ms (Hex 00) (created from the previous glitch performance which I stabliized in daycare) plus one other pokemon that hadn't changed, then finally I deposited Q. I then released Q, the top pokemon, and 2 other pokemon rather than withdrawing them, and, before I withdrew Pikachu, I deposited two pokemon from my party. Each time I deposited a pokemon Pikachu's level changed again, and when I withdrew Pikachu its level was 255 and its remaining HP was shown as "D02/540" (appeared low but may have actually been very high?), and its status was Poisoned (nothing new).
Anyway, it looks like this glitch will give me plenty to experiment with. Maybe I should study up on the Pokemon data structure.
</side note> Next I exited the game without saving and tried swapping boxes 1 and 2 on my cartridge in Stadium. The glitch failed to work in box 2 and it failed in box 3 (which contents I didn't actually change at all on Stadium). I think we're right to assume that Stadium makes the game "think" that the boxes were all at one point full and that that is why the glitch fails on certain save files.
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Post by Paco81 on Jun 27, 2011 4:05:04 GMT -5
Next I exited the game without saving and tried swapping boxes 1 and 2 on my cartridge in Stadium. The glitch failed to work in box 2 and it failed in box 3 (which contents I didn't actually change at all on Stadium). I think we're right to assume that Stadium makes the game "think" that the boxes were all at one point full and that that is why the glitch fails on certain save files. After that... The glitch still working in your Box 1?
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 27, 2011 8:43:02 GMT -5
I should have clarified before... Box 2 previously had only two pokemon in it before I swapped its contents with Box 1 (which only ever had a maximum of 6 pokemon in it), and Box 3 had never been used.
I thought about testing Box 1, but after testing Box 3, which had never been used, and the glitch not working, I just assumed that all the boxes must be equally affected so I didn't try Box 1 or any others before restarting again. I suppose for thoroughness' sake I ought to test each box, but I didn't have the time.
It may also be a good idea to test whether transferring individual pokemon from Stadium to Bill's PC causes the glitch to fail (instead of swapping entire Boxes). When I get a bit more time I'll try some additional tests, though I don't know how soon that will be.
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 27, 2011 19:30:11 GMT -5
I just finished depositing the same Lv. 100 Pikachu, 3 other pokemon, and Q in an unused Bill's PC box (without actually swapping any boxes at all), through Stadium. I attempted the glitch using that Box, (into which I had directly deposited the pokemon from Stadium), by catching a Pidgey with a full party, and the glitch did not work. I then tried another unused Bill's PC Box which I hadn't changed at all through Stadium, and the glitch failed again. I tried another unused box just to be sure, again without using Stadium, and got the same result. It appears that doing any more in Stadium than depositing pokemon directly into one's party will cause the glitch to fail in all boxes. Edit:Changing the contents of my player's PC with Stadium (moving a potion from my inventory to "Ciel's PC") did not affect the glitch. Also, via Pokemon Stadium I used a TM from my inventory on 1.) a pokemon in my party, and 2.) a pokemon in one of my Bill's PC Boxes. In both cases, the glitch still worked afterward. <another><side note> I attempted something that destroyed my game data. I performed the glitch as usual up to the point where I withdrew 2 other pokemon. After withdrawing the 2 "other" pokemon I released the third "other" pokemon before withdrawing my "remaining HP pokemon" ("Pikachu" again). As I withdrew "Pikachu" the game screen glitched and the game froze. I restarted the game without a problem and attempted to withdraw the pokemon as normal (Q, top, 2 "other", then "remaining HP"). As I withdrew "Pikachu" this second time, the game froze again even though the glitch was performed normally, and, after exiting and reloading the game, I received a message from the cartridge that the "file data has been destroyed."
I'd rather avoid doing this again, so I don't plan on investigating it further except maybe via an emulator.
Is it really possible (as I've read in various places) to destroy a save file so thoroughly that the game will stop working altogether and not allow you to create a new game? If so, how can this be avoided? </side note></another>
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Post by Paco81 on Jun 28, 2011 4:19:12 GMT -5
Thanks a lot for your test and for your time Ciel4. Your research was very useful for me, to understand more this glitch. Is it really possible (as I've read in various places) to destroy a save file so thoroughly that the game will stop working altogether and not allow you to create a new game? I think this is not possible. If a save file is corrupted and destroyed, always is possible restart a new game again. I attempted something that destroyed my game data. I performed the glitch as usual up to the point where I withdrew 2 other pokemon. After withdrawing the 2 "other" pokemon I released the third "other" pokemon before withdrawing my "remaining HP pokemon" ("Pikachu" again). As I withdrew "Pikachu" the game screen glitched and the game froze. I restarted the game without a problem and attempted to withdraw the pokemon as normal (Q, top, 2 "other", then "remaining HP"). As I withdrew "Pikachu" this second time, the game froze again even though the glitch was performed normally, and, after exiting and reloading the game, I received a message from the cartridge that the "file data has been destroyed." Maybe in this case, Pikachu was turning into a lv1 medium-slow growth Pokémon and for this reason, the game was freezed every time that you withdrew to Pikachu. For example, if using Mew trick you catch a level1 Mew and is transferred to Bill PC, when you withdraw the lv1 Mew the game always is freeze (only is possible use Release option on lv1 Mew). As plus, if the game is freezes using Pokémon Stadium´s GB Tower, there is some possibility that the game file data is destroyed. Possibly if this have happened using a GBC or GBA, the game would be fine after a restart.
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 28, 2011 8:52:25 GMT -5
You're welcome. I'm glad I can help! I think this is not possible. If a save file is corrupted and destroyed, always is possible restart a new game again. I suspect as much also. I appreciate the reassurance. I did do all of my testing in Stadium's GB Tower (except a little in the beginning, specifically cable-trading Q), and I do think I remember Pikachu's level being zero or one when the problem started. That would explain what happened. I noticed that as well about Lv 1 Mew. The same thing happened to me once when I tried to deposit and withdraw the Mew. I'm glad that I understand what happened better, thanks again to you.
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Post by Paco81 on Jun 29, 2011 4:38:19 GMT -5
Well Ciel4, if in the future you want to create a custom Pokémon via this glitch (e.g a Dragonite with good genetics or type Normal, Ground, Ghost, etc..), I gladly help you.
Now that I think... which combination of Types you find it more fun?
Normal/Ghost, Dragon/Ghost, Dragon/Psychic, etc...
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Post by ciel4 on Jun 29, 2011 10:30:33 GMT -5
Thank you! All 3 of those combinations sound great. I've been looking for a good combination that will maximize both type resistance, effectiveness and can also hopefully take advantage of STAB with at least 1 or 2 of the more powerful moves. A while ago I made a list of my favorite moves to help me decide which Types would be ideal, but I'm still uncertain about Type combinations since I haven't yet analyzed the all of them. As soon as I find or create a more complete chart (specifically for Gen I) that compares the overall resistances and effectiveness between each combination, I'll be able to decide. I welcome any advice or references to where I might find such info beyond the chart on Bulbapedia that only shows single-type effectiveness and resistances. For right now, I think Ghost/Dragon or Dragon/Ghost would be the coolest. I'd also like Dragon/Ice. Does it matter which Type comes first in combat? I know that the message displayed for effectiveness depends on which is first in certain cases, but I've read that the messages aren't always accurate. I may be going a bit off-topic here, but since you've been so kind as to offer your help, here's what I have so far: Excluding moves that do fixed damage, very low damage, or no damage I've chosen the following for my potential "dream team." Move | Power | Other Effects | Accuracy | Slash (NORMAL) | 70 | high crit. rate | 100% | Body Slam (NORMAL) | 85 | 30% PAR | 100% | Hyper Beam (NORMAL) | 150 | 1 turn recharge | 90% | Explosion (NORMAL) | 250 | user faints | 100% | Ice Beam (ICE) | 95 | 10% FRZ | 100% | Psychic (PSYCHIC) | 90 | 10% lowers Special | 100% | Flame Thrower (FIRE) | 95 | 10% BRN | 100% | Hi Jump Kick (FIGHT) | 85 | crash damage 1HP | 90% | Surf (WATER) | 95 | none | 100% | Crabhammer (WATER) | 90 | high crit. rate | 85% | Sky Attack (FLYING) | 140 | 1 turn delay 9.8% flinch | 90% | Drill Peck (FLYING) | 80 | none | 100% | Solar Beam (GRASS) | 120 | 1 turn delay | 100% | Razor Leaf (GRASS) | 55 | high crit. rate | 95% | Mega Drain (GRASS) | 40 | drain half | 100% | Sludge (POISON) | 65 | 30% PSN | 100% | Thunderbolt (ELECTRIC) | 95 | 10% PAR | 100% | Rock Slide (ROCK) | 75 | 30% flinch | 90% | Earthquake (GROUND) | 100 | none | 100% | TM 23 (GLITCH) | 255 (4 PP) | drain half | 33% | *TM 37 (GLITCH) | 255 (60 PP) | 30% PSN | 33% | *TM 51 (GLITCH) | 255 (49 PP) | none | 33% |
*No glitch pokemon is listed that learns this move As for genetics, I'm obviously in the market for maximum IVs! I have an idea, (sort of a question too)... With Pokemon whose species have changed via your alternate Q glitch/remaining HP glitch, do their IVs and EVs stay the same even though their species has changed? If so, then maybe I could 1.) hunt for one pokemon (e.g. Pidgey) that has perfect genetics, 2.) max out its effort values through training, and then 3.) duplicate that pokemon and change its clones into whatever species I like. 4.) As a bonus I'd like it if, after teaching the clones all the moves I want through the Q glitch I could then change the level of the pokemon (while keeping max IVs and EVs) to level 15 or lower so that I could use it in the Pika Cup. An equally good (maybe better) alternative, if possible, would be to somehow use Q to max the pokemon's IVs (and maybe EVs) without having to hunt for perfect IVs and effort train it myself. It would be useful to know whether changing the pokemon's Types, level, and species will also change its genetics. I don't know what might be the best way of doing any of this. These are just some ideas.
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Post by GARY 'M 9 on Jun 29, 2011 22:23:59 GMT -5
Thank you! All 3 of those combinations sound great. I've been looking for a good combination that will maximize both type resistance, effectiveness and can also hopefully take advantage of STAB with at least 1 or 2 of the more powerful moves. A while ago I made a list of my favorite moves to help me decide which Types would be ideal, but I'm still uncertain about Type combinations since I haven't yet analyzed the all of them. As soon as I find or create a more complete chart (specifically for Gen I) that compares the overall resistances and effectiveness between each combination, I'll be able to decide. I welcome any advice or references to where I might find such info beyond the chart on Bulbapedia that only shows single-type effectiveness and resistances. For right now, I think Ghost/Dragon or Dragon/Ghost would be the coolest. I'd also like Dragon/Ice. Does it matter which Type comes first in combat? I know that the message displayed for effectiveness depends on which is first in certain cases, but I've read that the messages aren't always accurate. I may be going a bit off-topic here, but since you've been so kind as to offer your help, here's what I have so far: Excluding moves that do fixed damage, very low damage, or no damage I've chosen the following for my potential "dream team." Move | Power | Accuracy | Slash (NORMAL) | 70 (+high crit. rate) | 100% | Hyper Beam (NORMAL) | 150 | 90% | Explosion (NORMAL) | 250 | 100% | Ice Beam (ICE) | 95 | 100% | Psychic (PSYCHIC) | 90 | 100% | Flame Thrower (FIRE) | 95 | 100% | Jumpkick (FIGHT) | 100 | 95% | Hydro Cannon (WATER) | 150 | 90% | Surf (WATER) | 95 | 100% | Sky Attack (FLYING) | 140 | 90% | Fly (FLYING) | 90 | 95% | Solar Beam (GRASS) | 120 | 100% | Razor Leaf (GRASS) | 55 (+high crit. rate) | 95% | Mega Drain (GRASS) | 40 | 100% | Sludge (POISON) | 65 | 100% | Thunderbolt (ELECTRIC) | 95 | 100% | Earthquake (GROUND) | 100 | 100% |
As for genetics, I'm obviously in the market for maximum IVs! I have an idea, (sort of a question too)... With Pokemon whose species have changed via your alternate Q glitch/remaining HP glitch, do their IVs and EVs stay the same even though their species has changed? If so, then maybe I could 1.) hunt for one pokemon (e.g. Pidgey) that has perfect genetics, 2.) max out its effort values through training, and then 3.) duplicate that pokemon and change its clones into whatever species I like. 4.) As a bonus I'd like it if, after teaching the clones all the moves I want through the Q glitch I could then change the level of the pokemon (while keeping max IVs and EVs) to level 15 or lower so that I could use it in the Pika Cup. An equally good (maybe better) alternative, if possible, would be to somehow use Q to max the pokemon's IVs (and maybe EVs) without having to hunt for perfect IVs and effort train it myself. It would be useful to know whether changing the pokemon's Types, level, and species will also change its genetics. I don't know what might be the best way of doing any of this. These are just some ideas. You should add TM55 to the list of moves. IIRC TM 55 has 255 Power and good accuracy. (It could possibly be TM 50 but I'm not sure.) Also, the chart on Bulbapedia technically shows double type effectiveness. Resistances and Weaknesses of types on pokemon stack via multiplying. Take Scizor for example, it's Bug and Steel, both types have 2x Fire weakness, this makes Scizor have 4x Fire weakness. You'll just have to stack your type combos weaknesses/resistances together to see what the Pokemon's weaknesses/resistances are.
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Post by Torchickens on Jun 30, 2011 2:30:29 GMT -5
Does it matter which Type comes first in combat? I know that the message displayed for effectiveness depends on which is first in certain cases, but I've read that the messages aren't always accurate. The actual type effectiveness remains the way it should be. For example, where as using a Grass move on Gyarados will return "It's not very effective..." due to Flying coming later in index ordering, the game is actually dealing Normal 1x damage.
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Post by ciel4 on Jul 1, 2011 0:45:19 GMT -5
You should add TM55 to the list of moves. IIRC TM 55 has 255 Power and good accuracy. (It could possibly be TM 50 but I'm not sure.) Also, the chart on Bulbapedia technically shows double type effectiveness. Resistances and Weaknesses of types on pokemon stack via multiplying. Take Scizor for example, it's Bug and Steel, both types have 2x Fire weakness, this makes Scizor have 4x Fire weakness. You'll just have to stack your type combos weaknesses/resistances together to see what the Pokemon's weaknesses/resistances are. Thanks for the tips. I remember seeing a glitch move or two that looked pretty good and I'm almost sure that that was one of the ones. I had forgotten and I'm glad you pointed that out. I'll look into TM 55 and definitely add it to my list. As for the table on Bulbapedia, yeah, I do use it to figure out double type resistances/vulnerabilities, but I'm working on a chart that will lay out all 15x15 combinations in Gen I in a way that should make it easier to compare any number of combinations side-by-side. I plan to include a basic rating for each combination's total effectiveness and resistances as well as a 2nd similar rating for each combo weighted according to the types of the most popular and the strongest available pokemon against which they'll most likely be pitted. I haven't come across anything similar to this, so I'm taking it on for my next pokemon-related project. The actual type effectiveness remains the way it should be. For example, where as using a Grass move on Gyarados will return "It's not very effective..." due to Flying coming later in index ordering, the game is actually dealing Normal 1x damage. This is what I thought. Thanks for clearing that up. Theoretically then, if a pokemon is type Psychic/Ghost or Ghost/Psychic would that mean that such a pokemon is immune to Normal, Fight and Ghost type attacks like how Dodrio (Normal/Flying) is immune to both Ghost and Ground type attacks?
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Post by Paco81 on Jul 1, 2011 5:00:20 GMT -5
Excluding moves that do fixed damage, very low damage, or no damage I've chosen the following for my potential "dream team." I think that Hydro Pump have power 120, Jumpkick not have power 100 and Fly have power 70. Crabhammer, Drill Peck, Rock Slide, Body Slam and all Hitmonlee´s kicks are good options too. In a non trained Pokémon, is possible change the Pokémon specie and maintain theirs IVs and Evs only if you use a Pokémon with catch rate of 255. If you use a Pokémon with catch rate different to 255. If a Pokémon have maximized their EVs (hex FF), then theoretically is possible only change the Pokémon specie and maintain theirs IVs and Evs. Obtain a Pokémon with maximum IVs using this glitch is very complicated, because you need a Pokémon with 2 moves with 63 PPs. The only way would be to do the Hyper Beam and Clamp 63/8 PP glitch. Theoretically this is possible. This is possible do using a GSC version and Pokémon Stadium 2. Via Remaining HP glitch perhaps is possible too. I will check this and later tell you. Theoretically then, if a pokemon is type Psychic/Ghost or Ghost/Psychic would that mean that such a pokemon is immune to Normal, Fight and Ghost type attacks like how Dodrio (Normal/Flying) is immune to both Ghost and Ground type attacks? What you said is correct. We must also take in mind that, perhaps some glitch type may have resistance to the ordinary types. There are 15 ordinary types, then theoretically there are 241 different glitch types (256 - 15), I think that all the glitch types take damage 1x from any ordinary type, but perhaps some XX glitch type be immune or have resistance to Psychic attacks for example.
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